New 4A’s CEO Justin Thomas-Copeland speaks out on hot button industry issues

This interview has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity. 

It’s a challenging time for agencies. How are you thinking about adland today?

Talent’s never going to go away in my mind. I read a couple of articles this last weekend about things being automated at scale, at pace, but I don’t believe there’s going to be a fully automated ad industry. Brands and businesses need people, people in the right spots really doing the right types of work, models with agencies that are really complementary, that can respond and act in new ways and create in new ways. So there’s a lot of talent that needs to underpin this and that’s also something that I’ll be looking at. We have fantastic programs in MAIP and Vanguard and I want to build on that but make sure that they are ready for demands of today and tomorrow.

Let’s unpack the automation bit. I assume part of that was a reference to Ben Thompson’s interview with Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg. The Verge’s headline was, “Mark Zuckerberg just declared war on the entire ad industry” as it seems like he’s pitching a world where advertisers work with Meta end-to-end. With you taking over the 4A’s, I’m curious about your perspective on that.

I like technology. It has a role to play. Clearly it’s got[ten] bigger and more pervasive within the industry. If you just think purely from a technical standpoint, that model [of end-to-end service from a platform] could be delivered, but it could have been delivered maybe five, 10 years ago as well, right? That’s a potential. The question is, is the market ready? Are brands ready? Does it give the output that consumers want? Does it build business? All of that’s unproven. So the theory may be there, but I think the practice is that we have to create some ands. I like this thing of ands. So I think it’s technology and people, right? That’s going to be the winning formula.

I don’t suddenly get nervous that it’s the death of the agency, but I actually see it as an opportunity. This is just part of this transformation of the [ad] world and these times that we’re in, where agencies have to add value and continually think about the value they’re delivering to clients, which, if I put my agency hat on, that’s not a bad thing, right? It’s me thinking about how you can move things forward. And evolving. And I think technology is an integral part of that. So I don’t suddenly panic when I read things and, or in this case, I watch the interview. I don’t have that visceral reaction. I just tend to step back and look at it for what it is and see where there’s opportunity for our members. 

Where’s the opportunity?

There’s a lot of opportunity for our members. I’ll say that I’ve lived through a number of seismic times. Web 1.0, I launched Ford’s first ever websites in nine countries in 1995. E-commerce came out in the early 2000s. Digital. Social media. So these are things that are additive and you’ve got to create those ands, as I’d say, to work out the best of the best mixture for clients and to add that value that they’re looking for. 

We’ve heard from agencies that they’ve had to become tariff translators for clients. I don’t know if that’s a seismic event yet but it does seem to be another transformational moment that we’re in, especially as clients tighten their belts and potentially cut spending. What, in your mind, is the best way for agencies to work with clients to manage this moment?

There’s an opportunity for agencies to step [up for] clients and get further in their business. That’s one of the key things that they’ve got to do. I believe you’ve got to live your client’s business. You’ve got to have a point of view on the business. So if you’re working for a retailer, and I’ve worked for the U.S.’s one of the biggest retailers in the U.S., you’ve got to think about not just the marketing campaign, but you should be thinking about the pricing strategy. You should be thinking about their supply chain. You should be thinking about their quality and their ecosystem. You should be thinking beyond just the next marketing brief.

A client who feels like their agency is in the boat with them and they can call them when the tough questions are being asked and they can prepare with them for certain meetings. That’s the kind of partner you want. You stop calling them an agency and start calling them your partner. This is a time where an agency should be doing that, they should really triple down on that and have a broader view on the client’s business.

One of the biggest stories in the agency world is the consolidation we’re seeing across the industry, especially with the Omnicom/IPG merger. How should adland be thinking about consolidation? 

There’s no doubt that an Omnicom/IPG will bring to bear a new look at how they structure some of those bigger engagements, the models of working with these big clients will probably be evolved. [That] the leadership, people that have converged thinking, that come from multidisciplinary backgrounds so they can talk digital as much as they can talk brand, as much as they can talk commerce. You’re going to need some more of those types of leaders. So I think it’s more a reflection of where marketing is now going.

But I think at the other end, with the independents, you could argue that it’s an opportunity because they don’t have those models. I don’t use the word legacy, but those models that have been there for a while. They don’t have those big models. So do you look at some of the independents and say, there’s a bit of a white [space] here that we could create something new in you.